How Syndicated Conservation Easements Work (And Why the IRS Cares) | Ep 97

James: This is one of those episodes that's going to make you sound really smart at a cocktail party because we're talking about something called a historic preservation easement. Mm-hmm. Which again, if you're at a cocktail party, that's when like people are a little, you know, they got what they put on airs.

They're a little smart, and it sounds like a smart thing and it is a smart thing. It's also a really weird thing and just something that I think is. Fascinating. This whole other world that I have recently learned about, and we're gonna talk about that on the Furlo Capital Real Estate Podcast, where we dive into the intricacies of.

Historic real estate investing. Yes. And our mission is to equip people to invest wisely in both properties and people so that together we can grow our wealth for our family tree history while improving housing. I'm James, and this is my wife Jessi. I just kind of want to know how many cocktail parties

Jessi: you go to.

I mean, you just like, that was just like off the cuff, like, you know. Yeah. The next time you're at a cocktail party. That is a good question. I was like. Have I ever been to a cocktail party? Sure. I served drinks at a cocktail party when I was a waitress.

James: Well, I guess if you, if you broaden it to a party where there are drinks being served.

Okay. Okay. A party of sorts. A party of sorts? Yes. Or like, what's the trivia night? The Pacific Northwest equivalent of a cocktail party. Hmm? You're going to a barbecue? Yeah, a barbecue. If you're off to a barbecue, I don't know, a pizza party, cocktail party.

Jessi: Maybe that's like more businessy. I mean, you could be if would like the next time we're at

James: a networking event.

A

Jessi: networking event. Oh,

James: Yeah. A,

Jessi: a real estate networking club event. See, when

James: you're at a beer bash in the beer garden. Beer cotton. Lemme think, yeah. What's Pacific Northwest? What do we do here? A wine walk. A wine walk. A pub crawl, pub

Jessi: crawl. The next time we got a pub with

James: friends.

Jessi: Hey, that's, that's probably that.

Okay. That's cool. The next time you're out

James: on a pub with friends and. At a pub

Jessi: the next time. You wanna seem super smart? Use this episode. Oh man.

James: Yeah. Cocktail party. That sounds like a podcast in and of

Jessi: itself. That would be highly entertaining. Yes. Like they just talk about trivia and things you should know to look smarter at a cocktail party.

James: There's what is it, Brian or Brian Brushwood? I think it's Ryan Brushwood. Brian, whatever.

Jessi: Brian. Brian

James: Brushwood. Nope. Brian Brushwood. It's definitely Brushwood. Okay. They do like bar tricks. Bar tricks. Yeah. Like that's like flipping a coaster thing or had all that kind of su So here's magic tricks you can do and their whole premise is you can bet someone, Hey, I bet you a dollar that I can order the next drink that I can X, Y, Z.

And then they. They have you do it and then they show you how it's done. Interesting. That's funny. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Huh? So yeah, they did a whole thing on that. I don't know if it's still going on, but Yeah. So there you go. There you go. Check that out. How do I recommend it? No, we're this is when you're talking with other real estate investors and you gohan, have you heard of the historic preservation easements or better yet, when someone is telling you about the fact that they're buying some really old building Mm.

And that it's like his cool historically. Mm-hmm. I guess true. That's where this thing comes in. And I learned about it not actually through one of my recent investments. The Baker Tower, which turns out is a historic building. Yeah. But instead it was on another project that had a whole bunch of a historic buildings and they were thinking about doing this particular strategy and I was in the camp of like, I have never heard of this.

I wanna learn more. Okay, there you go. And so I did. So you learned, and I'm gonna share so that the next time you are at a pub cocktail party. You'll sound really smart. There you go. I'm like, how I'm sounding right now, talking about once next time you're at a party that consumes drinks with fellow homo sapiens.

Yeah. So, all right, so we gotta build this up a couple ways. So there's a thing called an easement. Mm-hmm. I don't know, do you remember? Easement is, yeah. It's just like

Jessi: you get permission to do something even though it's not your property. Right. Like, I don't know, like there was a water easement on one of the properties where it was like, yes, this other pretty typical property can use the source of water even though they're not.

Living on this plot.

James: Right.

Jessi: But they have access to it and permission

James: Correct. To do it. Yes. And it's different from, say, a lease. Mm-hmm. In the sense that the thing goes with the land. Right. Goes so even if it gets sold by someone else Yeah. It stays in place. They, they keep the easement, and this isn't always true, but it's typically like.

Forever, right? Oh, it's not, it's not tied to time. So like, is that if there's a, well, that specific to

Jessi: easements.

James: Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things like if you have a well that's shared between two properties, it's kind like, man, as long as this well exists. Yeah. It's going to be shared by these propers.

Now, obviously the easement could disappear if that other, if the one who's sharing says, ha, we're actually gonna put our own well, or we're gonna do it, then, then they could get rid of the easement.

Jessi: Hmm.

James: When it comes to historic preservations, those easements do not go away. That's actually one of the requirements is they last forever.

Who

Jessi: makes

James: them? Oh dude, we're gonna get into that. Lawyers. Lawyers make them too. Yeah. It's

Jessi: not like building owners.

James: Yeah. So so what's interesting, okay, so that's an easement. Mm-hmm. Now there's a, there's a historic aspect to this mm-hmm. As well. You're essentially creating a historic. Easement. Oh.

I should, yeah. I think you got, I'm trying to decide the right order in which to unfurl all of this. But yes, you give it away to some third party. Mm, right. Usually it's another owner, but not necessarily. Mm-hmm. Other easements are like mineral rights. Mm-hmm. Or back in the day when they were doing a bunch of oil drilling, they'd be like, sure, we think there's oil under your land.

We want the rights to it. Hmm. That kind of thing. And that's exactly how they talked. We want the rights. When did it, we want the rights. Give us the oils. See,

Jessi: or like roads. That seems like another one. Like if, if you can't access your property fully, you have to go go over another one. Yes. You get an easement to drive through.

Yeah. Like flag lotts

James: are often Yeah. That's kind of the thing. Kind of. Kind of, yes. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. Yeah. Yep. And you can have easements for Yeah. All sorts of stuff. There's like, there's often utility easements, like hanging lines through property is a thing.

Jessi: So is the power line in our backyard and has an easement somewhere or something?

Yeah.

James: Yeah. It should. With Pacific Power, I'm guessing. Or they're like, we can access your backyard because this is where it is posted, or whatever. I don't remember looking into it. It was just kind normal, but Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. 'cause in theory let me, if I remember correctly, you own from your dirt all the way down to the center of the earth, really like a little triangle sliver.

And then you own the air above. I think it's up the, oh gosh, what is it? I think it's like 400 feet or something like that. Might be really like a thousand.

Jessi: So we so. If we weren't part of an HOA that monitored, like what we did to our house, we could like stick something on our house up that high. Yeah.

Theoretically. Yeah. Although, like put a

James: windmill

Jessi: up or something, I would think like the city or the HOA would be like, Nope, that's ugly.

James: Yeah. They're, yeah. You obviously still gotta follow city rules and stuff and they may say like, you can't do that. Yeah. But yeah. Alright, cool. So in the case of a historic property mm-hmm.

Okay. What this usually means is that you're giving up the right to tear down or significantly alter the building in order to preserve its facade or key features. Okay. So an important aspect of it is it's all about the outside. Mm-hmm. It's all how it looks like. You can change the inside to make it a bowling alley.

They don't care.

Jessi: Strange,

James: but like the outside needs to look like a historic whatever.

Jessi: You would think that it would be maintain the whole building's purpose, you know, as opposed to like, it just has to look. Old or historical, correct.

James: Yeah. Nope. Just has to look that way. So to qualify as historic mm-hmm.

There are rules. So the building must be listed in the National Register of Historic Places. How do you get on that? Great question. Used to be old, so yes. Number one, it has to be old, typically 50 plus years. Okay. Okay. Number two, it has to look as it did historically.

Jessi: Oh, so it's if it's already been altered.

Yeah. You can't ever to the list.

James: Now I have a hunch there's like, you can work around that, where if you re restore it back to its old look. Okay. You might then be able to Sure. Potentially apply to add it. And here's the hard one. It's associated with an important event or activity.

Jessi: Oh. Like, what are some examples of that?

James: If there was a war that took place, if there was a famous person who lived there

Jessi: or if there was like some historical fire or something. Yeah. And it survived. Mm-hmm.

James: Yeah. And it doesn't have to be like nationally wellknown. Interesting. It could be locally, well. Yeah.

Jessi: Or like there was like with Baker Tower.

Mm-hmm. There's some association of like, it existed with the Oregon Trail or it was like, yeah, whatever. Yeah. It had significance.

James: Yeah. Now, often, oftentimes you can also have what are called historic districts. Okay. Which, technically the Baker Tower is in a historic district. The building itself isn't historic, but it's within a historic district, and so you can kind of use that as a.

Same within the, the district's been considered historic and it qualifies in the fact that it's old and it looks the way that it did. Interesting. Kinda back into it, like for the Baker Tower, that's one where I'm like, the picture that's on the historic registry mm-hmm. Is of the Baker Tower. So I'm like, all right.

I feel pretty good. That

Jessi: pretty iconic building. Yeah.

James: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I go into the tax treatment piece. I'm gonna have you take care of our crazy dog who is doing whatever he can to get our attention. 'Cause he's like a little kid and that's what he does. So that is how, that's how easements work, right?

So the idea is, or a historic easement I should say. The idea is you are saying, Hey, this is a historic building and we are making a commitment to never change it again, right? Like this is for the life of it and. You are giving that easement to somebody else. Now here's the tricky part. It's not just anybody.

You want to give the easement rights, so to like it needs to be to a qualified nonprofit or government agency. Oh. So I know this is like, so we're getting into it. So essentially we use Baker Tower as an example. Mm-hmm. I would then give an easement of the facade, not the inside, just the outside.

Mm-hmm. To another nonprofit saying you guys are now. In charge of making sure that it stays the same.

Jessi: Okay. Now

James: I may, I still have to maintain it 'cause I still own it. Mm-hmm. But they're the ones who enforce are Yeah. Essentially it

Jessi: looks historical. Yes. Weird. Okay, so you, okay, so you have to create an easement and somebody else has to manage it.

Can you manage it yourself?

James: Can I be the owner of the nonprofit?

Jessi: Yeah.

James: I don't know. I mean, I'm guessing that, my guess is no, but I don't, that's also my guess, but I don't know. I didn't get that far. It's a little strange, but the situation I was looking at, I didn't need to. Sure. There are shocker third party nonprofits that like this is what they do.

Yeah. Because they get it.

Jessi: Yeah. They, I mean they're historical preservation is a thing. And I can hear you saying like, cool, James, so

James: what? Alright, here's like, so there's, there's money involved. So we, thats why we wanna keep building sick and old. So the IRS treats easement donations as charitable contributions.

That's why it's important that you give it to a nonprofit. So the deduction that you get is based on the difference between the property's fair market value before. After the easement. Okay. So weird. It's because in theory with this easement now in place saying you can never change the building, the value of the resale of the property drops.

Right? So let's say we didn't go

Jessi: up 'cause 'cause you want to, you're like buying something historical as value. So let's

James: say, let's say hypothetically our house Uhhuh, okay. Single family home, middle of nowhere, it wouldn't qualify. Sure. But let's just say hypothetically we're like, we're doing this thing.

Yeah. From now on, it will be a green house, a pink, blue, green house. Oh. It has to be maintained uhhuh. The, the the garage door will stay wooden. The windows, if they were whatever, will stay how they are. I can already see, like, so you know how we added solar panels? Yeah, yeah. Nope. Can't do that. Okay.

So I could see how that's not. Let's say in the future lower, we were like, like, Hey, let's tear this down and build a duplex. Right? They'd be like, Nope, can't do that. Yeah. That's the like, okay, so it lowers the value. Right? And so the difference between those two is is considered a charitable contribution.

Jessi: How much are we talking about? Like the value being lowered?

James: It depends on what it is. Right? So so like, think about the Baker Tower. Mm-hmm. Another, another example. So I bought it for 1.65. So it's clearly what the market value is. And I would make the argument that that's after this, 'cause it's in a historic district that's the, that's the post or Yeah, the post preservation value.

Mm-hmm. But let's just say it wasn't in a historic district and they were like, yeah, you could tear it down and build whatever you wanted.

Jessi: Interesting.

James: I mean, it could be worth a lot more now it's as is selling to someone else to develop, right? So it's not saying, oh, what if I, what if I tore it down and build an 80 unit apartment building?

What would the value of that be? No, no, no, no. It's what would the value be to someone, to a developer who wanted to buy it to build an 80 unit apartment building?

Jessi: Yeah. So yeah, so essentially it just limits future plans for the building and so. Yes.

James: So the trick your

Jessi: market for who you're gonna sell it to shrinks.

James: Yeah. So the trick is that a qualified appraiser determines that value. Interesting. Now, in my case, half of it's already figured out. Mm-hmm. But you'd have to figure out both. And the IRS, they really scrutinize this because Shocker. Like what it could be, oh, someone would obviously pay $10 million for this.

Right. It's like, right. So you need to be able to have like bulletproof, defensible, no questions asked. Everyone goes, yep. That's reasonable.

Jessi: Interesting.

James: Yes. And my guess is I, I don't know how an appraiser does it. Mm-hmm. Maybe you get like two or three and you take the average or you go, Hey, we'll go with whatever the lowest is.

Yeah. You know, something like that. If you could get someone to make an offer as if that would help. But again, like how do you not have collusion in there and stuff? Right. Which, like for Baker Tower's case, it's already like you can't hide that. Mm-hmm. But if you were like, we're going to do this, and so you put it on the market as if for a developer, and then you get your offer in, you go, awesome, cool.

That's our number. Now we're gonna add this easement to it. Now it would be worth, so yeah, that's a tricky part, but like for obvious reasons, this is like, what could it be is like you gotta get that right. Yeah. Because you can get a lot of trouble if you do it wrong. Hmm. So let's say that you have an unrestricted value of a million dollars.

Mm-hmm. And a restricted value of $700,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. So then the donation value is $300,000. Perfect. Now, normally charitable deductions for appreciated property are capped at 30% of your adjusted gross income. Okay. But. So what that means is, say in this case, your $300,000 thing depending on your income, let's just say, I don't know, you only made a hundred thousand dollars a year.

Mm-hmm. You could only deduct up to $30,000.

Jessi: Because that

James: would be a 30% cap, but for historic easements, they allow up to 50%.

Jessi: Oh.

James: And a 15 year carry forward. Interesting. So again, if you made a hundred thousand dollars, you could actually deduct $50,000 and then that remaining 250, you could, then you do 50 each year.

You could do over the next five years. Wow. Up to 15 years. That's

Jessi: significant.

James: Exactly. Exactly. Huh. So and you know, and in this example I'm giving here, right, it's not necessarily like magical Oh my gosh. But like it could be very valuable. Okay.

Jessi: So just make sure I'm understanding this. Yeah, yeah. This is actually my next section, but keep on, qualifies for that deduction.

James: The owner of the building. So it's, the owner allows the easement, the person who grants the easement. Okay. Okay. Got it. All right. Because

Jessi: essentially they're

James: losing money. Essentially. Yes. Yes, yes. And they're more importantly giving it to

Jessi: Yeah. A nonprofit.

James: It's nonprofit. You can't just say, Hey, we're a historic building now.

The value my building's dropped. So it's gonna be a write off. Like that's not a thing. It's gotta be this charitable donation piece to it. Yes. There's other stuff. Yes. We're not think into the weeds about it, but, okay. You ready for it to get like that and alone, like. That's cool. Sure. That could be worth it.

Just that, like I said, that alone, thinking about Baker Tower, I'm like, it's probably worth talking to a lawyer company. Yeah. And you could see where they get in there and they say, Hey, we'll be that nonprofit and we will only charge you Yeah. $20,000 to do all the paperwork for you. Mm-hmm.

Jessi: You

James: know what I mean?

Yeah. And you go Yeah. Worth it. Mm-hmm. You know, assuming you can get that value to be where it needs to be. Yeah. Alright. You ready for us to level up in the complexity and awesomeness? So. You can do what's called a syndicated conservation easement.

Jessi: What?

James: Oh, I know. So crazy. It's, it's controversial, but essentially you form an LLC mm-hmm.

Just like a normal syndication and this thing totally cut off on its printing. So that's exciting. Okay. I think I got it. You create one in my case, like we created an LLC for the Baker Tower. Yeah. Check. Already done. And then what happens is. This is you could, how do I wanna describe this? You then sell the company or you sell the building, the full building mm-hmm. To this LLC. Mm-hmm. Okay. Which you may be an owner of it, someone else may be an owner. So the LLC.

Jessi: Didn't buy the building initially.

James: Correct. Now I've technically have already done this step of it. Right. Okay. Like I formed an NLC and the LC is the thing that bought the building.

Yeah. Which is cool. And, and we raised $550,000 to buy this $1.65 million building. Mm-hmm. Cool. Got leverage. It's awesome. Investors contribute capital to fund the purchase. Mm-hmm. Just like normal. You set it up where you could still retain control over the property, just like normal? Sure. Okay. Like in my situation my investors, they own 80%.

Mm-hmm. I own 20%, but I also like, it's a different class of shares and so I manage the entire thing. Mm-hmm. As a matter of fact, to protect them legally, they're not allowed to do any management stuff or potentially financially they're not allowed to do any work. Any work. Okay. So now you get the appraisal on the property.

Right. Figures out what the highest and best use could be. Mm-hmm. What would some be willing to pay in order to develop and do that highest and best use?

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: So let's say in this case the un unrestricted use could be like, say worth $5 million.

Jessi: Oh.

James: And the restricted use is only a million dollars.

Okay. Okay. So that LLC that owns it donates the easement. To, to a land trust. Mm-hmm. To this nonprofit and that $4 million, right? Mm-hmm. That becomes the charitable donation, and it's the investors that get the deduction.

Jessi: Oh, so it's multiple owners. Is it split evenly or does it have to do with how much they gave, or, it's all, it's

James: how, however you design your waterfall.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever the split is that you would almost with, with the profits. Interesting. They get this, so here's this example, okay? Mm-hmm. So. It. Let's say in this example, investors raise, they buy the building for, I'm trying to keep the math really simple. Mm-hmm. You buy a building for a million dollars.

Mm-hmm. Or they invest a million dollars into buying this building, unrestricted, it would've been worth five restricted. It's only worth a million. Mm-hmm. Which is what they happen to put in for it. Mm-hmm. Right? So now in this case, right, the investors get to deduct.

Jessi: 4

James: million. $4 million. Mm-hmm. From it. So let this sink in for a little bit.

You invested a million dollars, you get to deduct $4 million, that's a four x whatever value increase. Mm-hmm. Over it. Now they introduced some caps into this because people were like getting crazy mm-hmm. About it. But it's kind of, it's kind of nuts. So so then on your taxes, you then get to write off that $4 million mm-hmm.

50% of your a GI over the next 15 years. Mm-hmm. And, and it's. Borderline. Like you actually make money on the deal. Hmm. Right. If you think about what your what your tax bracket is, and we're talking about high income earners. Mm-hmm. They're at a higher tax bracket. Like if you take that $4 million in terms of like true savings, you multiply at times you know, whatever percent bracket they're at, like to 35%.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: Like they actually walk away making money. Interesting. On the deal. Which is what used to happen. So people, companies would set these things up where they would say, Hey, we saw your building and we think it could be historic and awesome.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: Which is great. We recommend that you do this thing.

And then they just pull from investors from around the world who. They invest and because of the super high caps and the values and stuff, they ended up making money on their taxes. Hmm. Which is insane. Now you never actually get the cash, but your tax savings are so dramatic. It's, you know, it's as if you made Yeah.

You know, mathematically you made money. Sure. You just don't necessarily get the cash in your hand. Now the advantage of say like an organization, like again, if it was our house and someone came to us and said, we wanna do this we would be essentially selling the property to that other company. And we would get the cash for it.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: And you could still retain a controlling interest.

Jessi: Yeah.

James: In all of it. Like, 'cause maybe you only, yeah. Whatever. And so now you've got cash to play with Super.

Jessi: Big weird loophole to not pay taxes. Yeah. But,

James: It's an awesome one. Yeah. No it is definitely, it is definitely weird. Yeah. But the idea is, so here's the, lemme try to land this plane here.

Mm-hmm. So if you've got an older building that has potentially some sort of historic significance to it, and yeah. I happen to have one, which is instantly, I was like, I need to learn more about how this works.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: And. So if you have that, and then and I, like I said, I've already syndicated it. I've already raised the funds for it.

So in my particular case, we could throw out some numbers and I don't have a calculator, so we'll have to figure it out. But my investors invested $550,000 at the restricted rate. Mm-hmm. It was worth 1.65. Let's just say hypothetically, that if it were unrestricted and they could do whatever on it, the building would've actually been worth.

I, I don't know. I'm trying to keep it, let's say 1.85. Sure. So $200,000 more.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: Whatever. So in my case, I'm like, we should totally do this because then we can do the charitable donation mm-hmm. Of that extra $200,000 and I can walk to my investors and say, Hey, great guys. Good news.

Jessi: Mm.

James: You guys get this $200,000 deduction.

I get 80% of it. I guess I get the other 20%.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: And they just get to deduct that from their taxes. Hmm. For probably some complicated paperwork. Sure. But it's all about can we get that justified, the unrestricted rate, which I already know. So we bought it for 1.65, but the appraisal actually came in at 1.8 mm.

Jessi: So

James: I'm already like, dude, we already got 150,000 locked in. Mm-hmm. Now we just try, gotta make the case like actually if this was unrestricted and we could build anything, this would be worth more now. Mm-hmm. That actually made backfire on me because my building actually is iconic and that alone has brand value to it.

Right? So it might actually work against me to say, well, if you destroyed it wouldn't be worth as much. Outside of saying, well, how big of a place would I be allowed to buy? Mm-hmm. And then you could work backwards on saying, okay, the market cap on something like that. You know, let's say, oh, we could put in, maybe they wouldn't let me do 10 stories anymore.

I could capped at like five stories, but I could do the entire thing and I could add. Let's say 50 units to essentially double the unit size.

Jessi: Mm-hmm.

James: I could, I could easily make the argument to saying like, well, yeah, the cap rate, if the cap rate's all exactly the same and we just increase your revenue 'cause we increase, we doubled the size.

Your billions now were 3.6. Mm-hmm. Like, I could easily like that. To me, I feel like that's justifiable.

Jessi: Yeah.

James: And that's the math. And then I go to my investors and go, good news guys. We're never paying a penny of taxes for this building over the next 15 years.

Jessi: So I just, that made me think of like.

Appraiser in this scenario are, are there specific appraisers to these historic easement types of things? Probably because it's like they would have to understand some of those nuances of, like, I, I would not be the value of the historical building. There's versus brand new. And how do you even compare those?

Probably the value to them. Yeah.

James: I don't know.

Jessi: Huh.

James: Weird. They have to be, well, they have to be a, a qualified appraiser now. I don't know if that Sure. Oh, if that's

Jessi: just an appraiser in general, a general one historical easement.

James: I have, I have a hunch. There's a historical easement appraiser designation.

Interesting. That they get. Yeah. And I have a hunch, whoever you work with to do this goes, here's who you want to call. That makes sense to me to to help out, because that's very

Jessi: specific.

James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think a normal appraiser would get mm-hmm. That whole highest and best use idea. Sure. Which, again, it's what would someone pay.

For a building, if it could be its highest and best use. If you could somehow, it's

Jessi: weird,

James: somehow change the outside and redevelop it and either do like a full on redevelopment or, oh, we're just gonna maximize, we're gonna change the outside of this. We're gonna update. It somehow we're gonna repaint our house to a better color.

Sure. Right. Whatever. Yeah. So anyways, super cool. Really interesting. It just, to me, it just goes to show there are so many like niches and nuances with real estate that like, that wasn't even on my radar. I mean, like I literally was buying something that is like. Prepackaged to do this. And I had no idea.

Jessi: Yeah.

James: Until I was working on another project, then they started talking about it and I went, whoa, hold on a second. Time out. Time up that I don't wanna learn more about this. Yeah. So just super fascinating, huh? That's something that's on the list to

Jessi: All

James: right. I figure out how to do 'cause it sounds cool.

Does sound cool? Yeah. Anyways, hopefully found that interesting and you're like, dude, I'm gonna sound so smart at my next pub cocktail party event with persons of interest. Oh, you will be that person of interest for sure. Oh my gosh. So you're welcome. Yeah. So with that, thanks for listening. Have a great day.