Why Some Deals Fit You Better Than Others: Investing Within Your Genius | Ep 136

James
Look, here's the deal. You can spend all day studying cap rates, underwriting numbers, things like that. But if you don't understand why it is you make decisions, you will continue to make the same mistakes over and over and probably even make even bigger mistakes than if you were bad at underwriting. I think And we're gonna talk about that. I don't know man, I do like numbers a lot.

Jessi
Yeah.

James
But I want to talk about that today on the Furlo Capital Real Estate Podcast where we're gonna dive into the genius of working or working genius And how that relates to the intricacies of passive real estate investing. Because our mission is to equip people, to understand their minds and how they think, in order to invest wisely in both property and people, so that together we can build wealth While improving housing and improving ourselves at the same time. I'm James and this is my genius wife, Jessi.

Jessi
I love this topic because personality tests, oh, they just they're just fun. Like it, I don't know. I I I have used them for productive settings, like in a work type setting.

You know, everybody on your team takes this personality test and then you're all like, oh, you're one of these, you're one of these, I'm one of those. And then you learn how to like communicate. But I just like to take them for myself.

Because often I I know you and I both have have landed on this where we like, we fit into a particular category most of the time. We're like, yes, that is so me. I'm like, yes Yes, yes, yes.

And uh typically I'm like probably like ninety percent in one area and then the others are kind of spread out, but that's not how most people most people are like more even or they're I don't know.

James
That's fair. We're pretty extreme in the world. You and I are just extreme. For the record, working genius is not a personality test. Okay, fine.

Jessi
So I was recently similar though. How is how you work?

James
I just So I was so I recently was w I went through a training for it. Um I'm on the board of directors of a local nonprofit and we did it to see like here's how you work as a team. And it was really good.

But that was someone was like personality test. She was like, uh uh. It's not a personality test.

So whatever. It was my turn to do that. Yeah, so there's a thing called working genius.

I mean, there's a lot of different things. You got your disc Your minus brig, which is dumb, don't do it.

Jessi
Which some of those are personality tests.

James
Yeah, oh yeah. Those ones are. Okay.

This one's not. This is different. This is how you work with other people and how you that's good.

I know. They're very similarly structured. Whatever.

At least. Like you answer a set of questions and it yeah. Totally.

So yeah. And so you could do this one. It's actually relatively inexpensive, I think.

That's what I did was like 35 bucks to do the test. I think it feels right. It wasn't hundreds.

No. Um I've done Strengths Finder, which is now goes under some other name. Um, I don't remember. But uh yeah, and I actually have my employees do it when they when they start because I want to know what they're wanting to do.

how we integrate with the team. And I want to know how they work and their personalities and what to look out for and how I can best support them. Yep.

And so we do it. But yeah, we did it as as a board. And so I'm going to go through it.

And I'm going to talk about all the different there's not that many. There's like six categories Again, it's it's it's actually simpler than a lot of the other ones, like strength finders. Like, what are you on these?

52. Oh my. It's a lot.

Jessi
And yeah, no, this one this one I can wrap my head around.

James
And like I can I like it.

Jessi
Yeah, the thing about it that's nice is I can remember what other people are because it's simple enough. Like it boils it down to two. Yeah.

You know, like strengths that someone has, or like a like a I don't know, a strength and then you'll probably talk about it. A strength and then like an annoyance or something. I don't know how to say that.

James
Speaking of which, one of my noises is the Enneagram.

Jessi
That one is so complicated.

James
You don't get it. And here's here's the thing that it most annoys me. Like, cool man. What's a three?

Jessi
What is that?

James
Nobody knows. Oh, you must be a number of things. Oh yeah.

Then you got your triad. Oh my word. Diodes.

Yeah, your happy self and your sad self or something.

Jessi
I don't know.

James
It's like, oh my gosh. So dumb. Yeah.

But like Christianity. I don't get it. But working genius.

Really good. This one makes sense. I recommend so the three that I do, it's Working Genius.

I'll do disc as well, mostly because they have really cool charts and graphs that go with their thing. Makes sense. Yeah, which is nice.

And and then I do the uh strength finder or whatever the one it is.

Jessi
Is the strength finder one um like spiritual or something?

James
No. Oh it's It's um I was introduced to it when I worked at HP. I think it's um it's like the the Gallup poll bought it. I think that's who owns it now.

Interesting Yeah, and and it is it's like fifty-two different strengths and it just it ranks them for you. Oh wow. Which is kind of cool.

So you can see your top five and your bottom five. And that's usually I'm like, yeah, let's look at those. Everything else is just noise.

And um Yeah, and and obviously there's overlap with a bunch of stuff. Disk is nice because it's like how do you think about problems? Is how I how I interpret it.

And how do you come up with solutions and like Like how you attack things.

Jessi
Which is very similar to to working genius.

James
More so in the sense that like do you look at it from a I'm gonna create solutions versus I'm going to adopt things versus I'm gonna mull them over. Yeah, I sure there's yeah, there's overlap with all of them. Sure, there yeah, there is. And and it doesn't Disc, they don't talk about here's how to work with a team outside of you should have a mix of everybody.

Jessi
I do like that with this particular one. Yes. And I hope if you don't get to it, then I'll talk about like how the different lo the different letters like once you code it.

Oh, I will get to that. The other letters. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have some I have some stories.

James
Good, good, good. So uh so that's what that's what I want to talk about. Really good. So uh what is working genius? Let's start with that now that we've talked about a whole bunch.

Jessi
A personality test.

James
Not a personality test. Pat Lencioni?

Jessi
Oh, sure.

James
Uh let's see, is that how you is that how you pronounce that name there? Lencioni. Yeah, that looks right.

Laconi. All right. Anyways, yeah, he goes, it's a productivity tool, not a personality test.

There you go. See? There you go.

Uh so there's six types of whatever. Yes. Categories.

Of personalities. Oh my gosh.

Jessi
Uh no. No. Of productivity types. Types.

James
Yeah, anyways, so you have wonder and we'll go into all what I'll define all of these for you. We have wonder, have invention, discernment, Galvanizing, enablement, tenacity. Spells, widget. Okay. And what they do is they measure.

Jessi
It does. Yeah.

James
That's how I remember it. It's probably on purpose, huh? Oh I'm sure it is. I didn't I didn't put that together. Go.

Jessi
Um I thought that I thought you were gonna start there and be like It's widget. So you can remember it. Wonder.

James
I'm invention. So, anyways, it measures how you get work done and how you show up in decision making. And that's like that's the critical piece, which as passive investors That's what you're doing.

You're making decisions. And so knowing where you fall in this and who your where your sponsor falls is really important. It's funny, I was working with a realtor once when I was buying a commercial set of warehouses.

And this guy's amazing at negotiations and really good at it. Really bad at underwriting. I learned about Power Boy 2 because I was like Whoa.

Which I was like, honestly, like this is a really good combination because I'm not sure.

Jessi
You're great at underwriting.

James
And then I could coach him, here's what I'm looking for, here's what I want you to do, here's the outcome. And then he would go do the negotiation and make it happen. So um, but it was like, but you gotta know that.

Yeah. So Um and there are so there's there's two geniuses like you were talking about those are your top ones and then you have your two competencies which is like I can do it, but it might drain me. And then you have your two frustrations.

Jessi
Frustrations, that's the word. Frustrations. Frustrations. So true.

James
Yeah. So um so there's also there's three stages of work that happen. And this honestly for me was This was a like mind-opening.

It it articulated something that has been bothered that has bothered me for years. Yeah. And it was good.

So you first you have your ideation, right? And this is where the wonder Uh do I want to go in this order? I think we take a step back.

Yeah, I'm gonna define one. I'm gonna define all six. Yeah, thank you.

That was kind of like I was like in the training we did this is the order we did, but I also knew all this stuff ahead of time. So, anyways, so let's define what those six are because I think it will help inform everything else. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so number one, wonder This is your visionary LP, limited partner, right? They're always asking, is there something better out there? Or what's this macro telling us?

They ask questions. When I think of Wonder, I think They're question askers. They go, what if?

What about? Could it be this? And so they're great at sensing market shifts early and asking questions that others don't. I'm curious, what are your

Jessi
I'm a I'm a WT.

James
So you are a wonder tenacity. Okay. It's weird. Yeah, so you're a wonder.

Jessi
I'm like, you're good at it. So I'm like, it's it's both, once you get down to it, it's both ends. of this process where you'll get into it, which is super weird.

James
Yeah. Well, honestly, your wonder trait That's why I have you on this podcast. Because I can present stuff and you're good at saying, whoa, hold on a second. Yeah, like what about this?

Jessi
Or how or that's why I brought you on. Yeah, wonders

James
So the one of their blind spots is that they can talk about an investing thesis without ever committing. Oh, there's always like, could it be this? What about that? The eternal researcher. You know, that kind of stuff.

Jessi
Yeah, there's always another question that they could be asking.

James
Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's how I asked

Jessi
And and I I often it's driven.

James
If you're a wonder person that sounds like you listen to last week's podcast, it's perfect just for you. That's true.

Jessi
Well, and often uh the way I think about this, like in my own brain and how I How I combat it sometimes is uh I because I'm always thinking, how could this be better? How could like this could be a little bit better? This could how how could we adjust this? How could we and I'm like, okay At some point you have to say, this is good enough.

James
Yeah.

Jessi
Now we need to make a plan and move forward. Yeah. Which I which I get.

James
Yeah.

Jessi
And that's the other piece of me is

James
Well another thing that's McLean. I know I've worked with you on is slightly reframing it of not saying this is broken, but saying it can be improved upon. It's good.

It's good now. It can be better. And then because I know like in your job, that was something you always wrestled with.

Yeah. I'm like, it's never gonna be good either. And you would you would always be like, this is bad.

And I was like, it's not bad. Yeah. There's just room for improvement.

It's good. Yeah.

Jessi
And it can improve

James
The second one is invention. Okay. And these are the creative deal structures types of people.

They're wired to generate new ideas for creative financing, novel structure. First mover types of stuff, they see angles that other miss and they thrive in complex custom deal design. They are inventors.

Yeah, they come up with the idea. Yes.

Jessi
Oh my word. And these people kind of dry me bananas Yeah. And they're like, ooh, ooh, what about this?

Oh no, I kinda th I thought of another one. What about this? How about we do this?

How about we could do that? And I'm like, oh my gosh, just stop Can you just commit to something? But it is.

Very simple. Very good. Yes.

They're very, very good at coming up with tons of ideas and very creative, like Oh, I bet we could we could tweak it this way. Or what if we layer those two on top?

James
Or and it's like, oh my word. I've got a friend, he's uh he's an agent and he's very inventive and always coming up with very complex Deals. Okay.

Oh. It's cool. I mean I like them too.

The blind spot is that they can fall in love with the structure over the fundamentals. And they just like they start to reinvent deals on some basic stuff. Like, just buy it just like normal.

What are we doing? Just do a just do a lease option. And and I've done that um with my business partner.

We're like, it's kind of funny. We'll we're like, we gotta figure out how to how to structure this creatively so we can do it. And we're like, we'll be trying to we'll just keep adding stuff and trying to make it complicated to try to solve different problems.

So what about this? And we come back around and we're like, we should just do a lease option. Yeah.

It turns out. Yeah. Um yeah.

Pretty funny. Uh the next one is uh discernment, which uh this is one I don't have this. Um I know.

Sorry. I feel like I I lean on you for it. It's the it is the analytical validator.

Okay. They are good at saying, is this the right time? Is this the right sponsor?

Is this the right market It's just the right deal. They are exceptional at pattern recognition and they can read operators and markets accurately. And oftentimes that's kind of a gut feel type of thing.

Right. Like that's and that's how we overcome it is we just do a ton of research. Uh but these are people who just they could just sense like something's just not right or something like this is awesome.

The discernment. Oh, I need discernment in my life.

Jessi
Yeah. They often they often are asking like Um, is that what we want to do? Or how exactly will that work if we know so that they're double checking. It's like I think in my brain it's like the double checker.

James
Now, they can often become the person who they're always videoing stuff, right? They they can sometimes it can feel like analysis paralysis, but it's dressed up as due diligence. Yep.

And they're the skeptic. Yeah. Right?

Jessi
They're they're necessary. Oh yes, they can hold up the the the process.

James
Yeah, yeah. Um I find actually using chatbots for this is super helpful. For discernment?

Oh yeah. So like if I'm looking at a deal, I will I will upload it to chat. Like, hey, take a look at this.

What am I missing? What are what are people going to be concerned about? What are the risks inherent in this project?

Like where would you be cautious if you were to invest in this deal? What questions are you gonna ask me about it?

Jessi
I find that wonder and discernment Definitely have similarities, but they're slightly different. They are like wonder is is more of the big picture, like what if How can we, you know, make this work? And the discernment is like, hmm. Should we is this really Yeah, should we? But there's they're similar in the sense that they're like, they're asking how how it could be good, how we could make it better.

James
So there are Gosh, did I I don't think I wrote this down. Um there's two sides of it, so you actually you jump back and forth between on the chart, it's a left and a right. And so wonder and discernment and enablement are all left side of things, which are the more empathetic, like they they're They're more like question-asing, yeah.

The big with other people. Or they're they're it's one's disruptive, the other one's uh accommodating. Whereas the right side, which is going to be invention galvanizing and tenacity can be disruptive.

Yeah. And so what that's what you're describing is both the wonder and discernment are on the Hey, let's bring in this bring together. Let's get everyone on the same page.

Let's not disrupt what's going on. Right. And so um that's that's kind of what you when you're saying they're related, that's what it is.

That makes sense. Okay. Next one is galvanizing.

I am a galvanizer. I am a galvanizer. Let's go.

So this is one of mine. I'm also tenacity. Uh what would you say your tenacity?

We're together on that one. W T. Yes, we'll get there. I'm a I'm a I'm a GT, I'm a Mustang, man.

Let's just go. So these are momentum builders. Yeah, they are.

So they rally others. They drive urgency. They love getting people aligned and moving.

They're excellent at convincing, oh no, I'm sorry. They're excellent at convincing con I can read. Conviction-based decisions, building investor relationships and leading syndications.

Yeah.

Jessi
Makes sense. Yeah, you're all about Finding your people and getting them getting them moving.

James
Yeah. Downside, sometimes they can move a little too fast. And they can they can move before the proper discernment.

Jessi
I They have an optimism bias. We have a galvanizer on our team who he he is like 100% galvanizer. I don't even know what a secondary thing is.

But he often will help us recruit for different jobs or volunteers or different things. And he'll find he'll just get all the names. And he gets people to be like, Yeah, okay, I'm interested.

And he's like, perfect. So he signed, he's got the list of names, he's got the phone numbers, and you reach out and you're like, okay, you know, this person said you're ready to go, you're ready to, you're fired up, and they're like, no I uh I don't know. It's like he's so good at like having to be like, yeah, are you in?

They're like, yes. I don't even know why I said yes right now.

James
Yeah, but he's he he's lacking that discernment piece and unit.

Jessi
Yeah, it's like just just running hard on the albumizing.

James
Yeah, so these guys, they're the deal makers, right? They close things uh other people wouldn't even try. And again, sometimes they close things they shouldn't. So it happens.

Jessi
It's yeah, it's such an intriguing skill to me though. I have to do it for the job that I have because I work with volunteers and I have to get people interested and engaged and like working. But it is so hard to to like cast a vision for people and get them on board.

And for some people, like it just seems so natural. Like this, whoever these galvanizer people are. It's like whoever those folks are.

Whoever you are.

James
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They may want to start up an entire podcast to talk about real estate to get other people excited about it.

Jessi
Yeah. And it just seems so natural to you to be like Oh yeah, why wouldn't you talk about this? Or why wouldn't you invite someone to join you?

James
I'm just like Do you believe in what you're doing? Awesome. Tell them Yeah.

Yeah. So that's the galvanizer. Galvanizer.

And and you can kind of see again, invention galvanizer, that's more the disruptive side of the world. Yes. Right?

They're they're making waves, they're doing stuff. Okay, let's go back to the calm side. This is enablement It's a supportive co-investor.

They say yes before fully thinking it through. And they because they're responding to others' needs instinctively, they're great at collaborative ventures and following strong operators. and adding value inside of a deal.

Okay. But sometimes they can overcommit capital or time and attention to deals out of loyalty or social pressure. And so they're the that's the cosigner.

They follow a charismatic syndicator into a bad deal because we couldn't say no.

Jessi
And uh She often is asking, how can I help? What can I do? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And and it's like, even if you're overwhelmed, stressed out, have way too much on your plate, she's like, okay, well, how can I help you? I'm like I think maybe it's taking something off the plate. Right?

Yeah. Yeah, but it but it's that's their drive.

James
I think that's gonna be our daughter. I can beat y'all. She very much has a lot of people.

She's a meddler at this at this age. But eventually it will become an enabler. She's a helper.

She likes to help. Yes, definitely. Definitely.

Uh and the last one is tenacity, which we both have. Let's get after it. This is the executor.

They want clear terms, defined timelines. and to see the thing through to completion. They're disciplined, excellent at passive investing structures, and love quarterly reports and to find exits.

Does bother me. I'm not actually as consistent on reporting as I'd like to be. And it bothers me, but almost like I don't know, nothing happened.

Uh the problem with them is that they can stay too long in a bad deal because they just want to see it through. Right. And they hate ambiguity Which we've talked multiple times.

The great deals, there's there's things. We were talking oh gosh, how many was this ago? This was this was a while ago.

We're talking about this deal that we're doing in Salem. We're flipping our Hasalem. In Sweet Home, one of those S's. It's uh we're flipping the property.

Yeah. And there's like the first two weeks in there where you're doing all the initial demo and you're finding everything. It's like, oh, I hate that part.

Because I had it underwriting. We did all the other stuff. Now we're executing.

We're getting after it. And then when they go, So we found this. What do you want to do?

Jessi
And I'm just like Oh, I have to change the plan and this is gonna make mess everything up.

James
I find myself just like, well, what do you think we should do?

Jessi
Uh this or that.

James
Good, whatever. Like stop bothering me. What are we doing here? Time is money. Come on.

Jessi
Just check the box.

James
Yeah. This plus or minus 10%. Why are we having this conversation?

Right. But like we had one where it was uh Because of the way the electrical was done, it was, well, are we gonna go above or are we gonna dig underneath? I was like I don't I don't know.

Well it was super funny too. I was like, well what's it look like above because it was already going above. Mm-hmm.

So I was like, let's just do that. And they were like, well, we don't like fully know where's it go where it goes. And I was like, is it not an addict space?

Like, well there is, but it's kinda dusty dirty. I was like, forget this. I was wearing nice clothes.

Like I didn't care. Let's go. I climbed through the dust and the spider webs, got in there, took pictures of everything so I could see it and went, okay, here's what like Here's the actual situation, so we can make a decision and move on.

Like instead of us guessing here, which ultimately they decided to dig, which I was like, fine, I don't care. Yeah. But like make a decision.

Oh, I hate that part. That's like In every deal that's that first two weeks where they've opened everything up. I'm like, ah let's just keep going.

Anyways, those are the six. So again. We've got wonder, great at asking questions, invention, invention, great at coming up with stuff to do.

We have discernment, good at deciding should we be doing this, galvanizing, getting people on their own board. Enablement, helping other people succeed, and then tenacity, just getting those done. I can tell what you are, it's hilarious.

Okay, so Those are the six. There are three stages of work, as I was saying previously, that I knowing this now was super helpful, and I can now articulate this inside of group meetings. Right.

And I think as an investor, it's good to ask those type of questions as well. And I this is something that you and I have had to struggle with because you're such a tenacity person. I'll come at you with Hey, look at this property and you're like, you're gonna buy it.

Jessi
Like, no, I'm just like, oh my gosh, okay, here we go.

James
Stage one is the ideation.

Jessi
And this is like Just to back up a step, this is for any project from start to finish, there's these three phases.

James
Or any decisions being made. Yeah. It's probably how to think about it.

Okay. So phases. So you have the ideation.

And this is where the wonder and invention come into it. This is the like the 30,000-foot view. And they're asking questions like, well, what if?

Or Here's the deal. Here's how we could structure it. Like they throw out a bunch of scenarios and could be and that is often when you first see a deal or a property.

That's the stage that you're in. Could these numbers make sense? Could it, you know, or what about investing in this area or this property type or whatever?

What if we structure that?

Jessi
Bigger picture question too about like, well, why are we doing this and what's the heart behind it? And

James
You know, like some of that.

Jessi
Yeah, it it's some of it, yeah. There's drive. Yeah. You know, it's it's the bigger picture.

James
Yeah. And then you have the activation. Which is for discernment and galvanizing.

We're getting a little bit lower now. It says 20,000 feet, right? They're asking, is this the right idea?

And and if so, all right, let's start yeah, let's start moving. Let's start let's start getting our team. Let's start figuring it out.

That kind of thing. And that's where a lot of underwriting is gonna sit in on that and you know, working on a spreadsheet and saying, I think I get investors, I think we could do this, like that kind of thing. And I and for me, I'll start, I'll put out little feelers with people.

Hey, I'm looking at this kind of deal. What do you think? And and I'll just kind of like, yeah, try to get some feedback.

And that's that's me doing like the galvanizing Slash discerning, trying to see if there's interest there.

Jessi
I have like zero interest in this part of the process. It actually drives me bananas because I'm like, oh my gosh, we already answered all the questions. Let's just make a plan and do the checklist.

No, no, no, no. Why are we second guessing everything? It's like we're just we're refining and making it better and getting people on board. And I'm like, uh Yeah.

James
What a waste of time. But I'm like, okay, I understand. That was my notes here was most investors actually skip activation entirely.

Right. They go from great ideas straight to let's fund it. Right.

So implementation is the final stage, and this is for enablement and tenacity. This is where you get into the thousand-foot view, which is how do I help and let's Finish it. Like let's do it.

And so you have those three stages. And I think like you said, there's there's a couple things that'll that'll happen in decision making process. The first one is you got someone who's throwing out an idea.

And some people in the group will instantly be like, well, okay, well, I have all these implementation questions. Like, whoa.

Jessi
Like we're not we're not there yet.

James
Hey, man. Like we're still in the no but good no bad ideas phase of this. You know?

And so I think you have that. Yep. But then you had the opposite where you're starting to get to like, okay, we're into the implementation, we're working through, and someone pulls an e-break and says, well, But like what about if we did this thing instead?

And and people in the group are like, whoa, like we are we are past that stage. You know, like we're we're hitting publish on this funding. Like we're at the closing table and we need to do it.

And um again, I've guy who we've worked with. Where it's it's very rare that it actually closes on time because inevitably something comes up, some, hey, what if we actually switch it and do it this way? And you're like, we're signing all the paperwork tomorrow.

Everyone's already signed off on the original thing. It's like, yeah, I know, but like this is gonna be so much better. Like that would have been really good to know a week ago.

Uh I had that with um Well the deal that we did, it was super frustrating because we didn't close and and it was just like, ah, come on, man, like quit changing things on us. Let's just move forward with what we all agreed on initially. Yeah.

And so um, so like The problem, and that's as an investor, you want to figure out what stage of this conversation are we at? And what stage are you at? Uh like maybe with your spouse or whoever you're also investing with.

Like Um and I actually think that's where a lot of um spouses will get into trouble because they'll go from, hey, this is the idea phase. I've been looking at this, I've been thinking about this. And then they go to their spouse and say, Hey, I want to invest in this deal.

Let's write a check. And the spouse is like, Whoa, I'm still up at the ideation here. I haven't progressed as far as honestly.

Need uh and you and you can get frustrated because you're like, dude There's only a limited number of spots. We gotta move. And they're like, I'm just not, they're just not there yet.

And so um, so knowing to me, that was Like that was huge understanding and then verbally saying, okay, we're moving on to this part of the decision making process or this part of the conversation has been super helpful.

Jessi
Yeah, we've found that too with our team where Those wonder invention people, once we've moved on to that second phase of the of the process, we ha we do have to remind them, like, hey. We've moved on from the brainstorming and the big idea. Those are great ideas.

Let's save them like for next year's project or for next year's event. Yeah. And let's complete what we've already committed to this year.

James
Yeah.

Jessi
Because it's it's too late in the game to make a switch.

James
Yeah. But it yeah, they're hard for some people too because typically at the beginning part of that process And this is like you gotta figure out how do you make it tangible for them. Like you talk about all the time, you're like, I'm not a visual person, I need to see it.

Jessi
I am a visual person.

James
I have to see it. Sorry. But oftentimes at that ideation stage, it's just talk It's all verbal.

You're not doing book that was an acronym. Oh my gosh. I I don't know.

Dang. It was former Googlers wrote it, but they were talking about how you can um quickly come up with ideas and iterate on them. And they were talking about how uh you just like they're like Man.

I am so sorry. I don't remember the name of the book. Um I wrote a while ago.

But uh they um They were talking about where, yeah, first you do some ideation stuff and then based on that, like you like you pick your top three or five, you go, and then you go quickly draw them up. Like here's what it could look like to as best as you can to help those people who are visual Like see because the problems you run into is how you just get into the planning phase, it suddenly becomes more real. No, no, no, no. And that's where the wonder invention people come in and go, oh, now that I can see it, I was actually thinking XYZ.

Jessi
Yeah.

James
And so it's like, how do you pull some of that up faster um in in that decision making process.

Jessi
Which which honestly that's where like my combination is super helpful because I go from the wonder straight to tenacity and I go, okay, that sounds like a great idea. Here's the plan. And often I have those people in the middle going, Well, no no no. Like that's not quite the plan.

Like I see that I see why you wrote it that way, but we need like let's bring it back and let's adjust it. And it's like, oh, okay, cool. But I force them to like move forward.

James
Yeah.

Jessi
And because I'm it's both. I like the big idea, I like the wonder, but I have to have a plan. Yeah.

And I'll just I'll just go straight to the end. And it's like, no, that you need the middle part to make it better. But I gotta have something.

I have to start with something. So that's Helpful.

James
So let's talk about how some of these your types can affect your investing. Okay. Because you can be stuck at one of those we'll call them the altitudes of decision makings and it's hard to go back and down.

So, like for example, maybe you're a Wonder investor. You know, that's your one of your primaries. You got a thesis on industrial, but you just never find a deal that's good enough because you you struggle to get lower on it.

Or you're a galvanizer investor. Which you you you you go and close on what you think is a hot deal uh before asking enough questions. Yeah.

And I feel like I've I've done this once. It's like at least once. Um, but specifically I'm like in retrospect, I'm like, eh, I wouldn't have done this deal.

I would have actually I would have done something different, but I got all excited and swept up into it.

Jessi
Yeah.

James
And so um Yeah, it's like one of those man bummer. Or you're a tenacity investor, which is like, man, you just hold a flat cash flow deal for years. Past it's possible.

It's potential, oh my gosh, it's optimal exit. Um, because you might think like, oh, it'll recover you, like you just keep moving forward, like something like that. And um, or it's like, I am just looking at cash flow.

I'm not thinking about anything else. I'm doing super boring. Right.

That's all deals.

Jessi
Yeah, it's like narrowed too narrow.

James
Yeah, yeah. Um And you might also um have issues or knowing what what your tendencies are for selecting sponsors is also okay. Because remember, you're not picking the market.

You're picking someone to run with. Yeah. Right.

So if you are a tenacity investor, you might want a galvanizing operator because they're gonna get you excited and get you moving. And then you'll hold them to actually finishing.

Jessi
Yeah.

James
Or if you are a wonder investor, you definitely need a discernment operator because they're going to filter your crazy ideas into ones that actually work. And if there is a mismatch and you don't understand that, that can create tension and just poor communication and misaligned expectations because you're like, ah, come on. And so knowing Where your sponsor's at, knowing that I'm not a discerner.

Um, but I've but I've like that's what you, my investors like that's something that they need to double check. Hey, is James doing this? Yeah.

And I've talked about this in the past, but I work really hard to make sure that my risks and mitigations is more exhaustive and comprehensive than what anyone else is going to come up with. And yeah, I throw it into different chatbots to help me come up with those things and to and just stress test it and I spent a lot of time thinking through those and I also just have some general heuristics because I know oh this is something that Like I'm not naturally gonna see. And so like for example, I will tamp down the rents and I will increase the cap rates and I will extend out vacancies and like there's things I do Which makes it harder to compete on deals because I get super conservative, but I'm also like, yeah, well, I I don't know.

This isn't natural to me. And so I've got to do these math things to help make up for that. Which thankfully is also highly Convincing.

Jessi
So um I think also one of the one of the benefits of knowing kind of where you sit in this when you're talking with your sponsor or looking at different investments, um and and realizing how you communicate differently. Like uh here's a specific example. I have teammates, so I'm a I'm a wonder tenacity.

James
Once I get down the tenacity route. Yeah.

Jessi
when they go back to that discernment galvanizing stage, it was causing this tension because I was like, you don't trust me. You don't, you're you're like, you won't move forward. You don't like the plan.

You know, and it was like No, it wasn't any of those. They just wanted to use their skill set to make it better. And it was like, oh, okay, I had to release my my grip on like it has to be this certain way.

For a time to say, yeah, let's discern. Is this what we actually want? Is it the best?

Is it good? Do people want to get on board? And then we move forward again.

Yeah. And it's like They yeah, it it wasn't like they were malicious or had this like, no, I don't really trust you, that's not a good plan. It it was just we need to back up and do this this step.

And so it was like, oh, okay. That makes a lot more sense now that I'm like we used to have this tension in team meetings and I was just like, Why can we not just move forward? Are you kidding me?

Like I I feel like this is a good plan. I have the checklist. And it was like Oh yeah, this is better.

I can pause and listen to them.

James
So Yeah, and I think for investors it's um If you find your sponsors getting frustrated because you're asking questions, you probably wonder. And and it's explaining to them, hey, look, I get it. And explaining part of that process to them can be helpful.

I don't know for me, it's yeah, when I get questions, I'm like, all right, all right, hey, they're engaged. I'll take it as a win and I will fully answer the questions. And even though I feel like I made a really comprehensive thing, um I I reckon writing it all out and someone just reading it real quick is is different.

Uh yeah, so um trying to think, what do I I have a lot written here and I don't think we need to do it all. There's just different pairings that could be really interesting, I guess. And so um and that's the thing, like you you probably recognize that you sit in two of them.

Um but I would say take the test. It's a pretty quick test. And I think it's worth it.

Again, it's not s crazy expensive. Um, it's fun. You can definitely go down the personality test rabbit hole.

Skip Myers, Brig. They have been proven that it doesn't like it doesn't actually, it's not predictive of anything.

Jessi
What's the is that the I N T E N T J I N T.

James
Yeah. That's another one where they just like they throw letters out at the field. I mean it's disc kind of does the same thing as well.

Which I don't love. Um, but uh yeah, man, just keep it simple. It's all good.

Working genius. It's worth it to know your working type, to learn more about um Us and again, you've you've seen uh I'm definitely a galvanizing tenacity kind of guy, which is cool. Um, I also think the other thing you want to do is you want to identify your frustration types.

Okay.

Jessi
And so um again, that's where uh someone might have that and it bothers you like um Yeah, galvanizers and inventors for me are like I think it's discernment wonder mine.

James
Um like stop asking questions. I'm like stop changing the plan. Yeah.

for a startup and um he was definitely an inventor and probably tenacity but uh Maybe inventor galvanizer? Galvanizer. I don't know, man.

Man, he used to come up with crazy ideas and we'd be like, let's go.

Jessi
Oh, he could definitely rally people though. So probably galvanizer in this yeah.

James
Yeah. But he was like He was invented. Which is quite an interesting combination.

Jessi
Like, yes, he definitely would come up with crazy ideas and get people on board right away. Just run with it.

James
But then would also like I don't want to say flame out pretty fast, but like he do it once, but like, all right, cool, next thing.

Jessi
Right. He liked the the new idea.

James
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you just gotta be be aware of that. All right.

So um And then I would look at your last three deals that you did, right? What stage did you rush? What stages did you skip?

Yeah. Which ones were you like, yeah, that's the one? And then just look at your um operator relationship.

So look at me, right? Do you do yours uh compliment what's going on? Because you don't want to have the same.

I mean, you can, it's fun, but

Jessi
Really, you'll get along, but you may not make progress.

James
Build out that team. You might get you might get stuck somewhere. Yep.

So that's important. Yeah, so um so yeah, there we go. That's working genius.

And kind of thinking about your mindset as being an investor and how it works to it. Anyways, I thought it was really cool. And thoughts hopefully super helpful.

So If you're interested in investing with a galvanizing tenacity guy and a wonder person by his side, um man, we would love to talk to you so you can learn more about what it is like to invest with us. And you can check us out at Furlo.com to learn more So with that, thanks for listening.

Have a great week.