How Ramit Sethi's 4 Money Types Can Help Couples Build Wealth Together | Ep 63

James: Welcome to the Furlo Capital Real Estate Podcast, where we dive into the intricacies of passive real estate investing. And our mission is to manage it. I forgot it's to equip people, to invest wisely in both properties and people so that together we can build wealth while improving housing. I'm James, and this is my wife, Jessi.

Jessi: I really love the trend right now. Actually, I don't know if it's trendy. I'm not very trendy. I'll let you know. Of like these sweaters that are like blankets. I'm, I'm wearing one right now because it's so cold. Are those

James: Snuggies? Is that the same thing?

Jessi: I mean, it's kind of Snuggie esque.

James: Okay, that's pretty comfortable.

Jessi: Oh, it's so comfortable. Nice. And it's like a poncho sweater thing. It's a poncho. I mean, really, it's a wearable blanket. Okay, alright. But, I'm like Yes. And you think that's a trend right now? I'm in. I'm making it trendy. Oh, okay. I mean a friend gave this to me and So, it's gotta be in

James: somewhere, I

Jessi: guess.

And there's other, like, sweaters and things that are, like, big and jacket esque.

James: Yeah, that's a typical characteristic of a sweater.

Jessi: No, well, I mean, like, bigger, like blanket, even like blanket status.

James: Okay, alright.

Jessi: Anyways, just loving it. I feel cozy right now wearing my blanket.

James: Because it's winter time and it's cold.

So my

Jessi: hands were like chapping.

James: Oh my gosh. I had to put

Jessi: some lotion on.

James: That's rough. It's rough. But that's okay. I have no transition for that. I, okay. How about this one for me talking about finances is like putting on a cozy blanket. It feels so comfortable. It's so awesome. Is that true? I love doing it.

And part of that process I think that is reading books about finances. And I recently just finished one and I wanted to share a concept. From it, with you. Perfect. It's called Money for Couples.

Jessi: Mm hmm.

James: No more stress, no more fights, just a 10 step plan to create your rich life. Be like, I want the rest of this title.

Rich life together. There you go. It's by Rameet Sethi and he's a personal finance guy business coach. That's not the right word. Like he does business classes. Yeah. Online classes for teacher,

Jessi: educator. Sure.

James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His website is I will teach you to be rich. com or IWT for short. Yeah, I've, I read his, his first book, wrote a second book.

Now I read his third book. All right. I've taken some of his online classes. I like the way he just, he sees the world in a good way or yeah, it is a good way, but he sees it differently than I do, I guess. And I like it when he can pull out conclusions and see things that I'm like, ah, I wouldn't have seen that myself.

Jessi: Yeah. I don't know if, if this book has this. Same principles or things that he usually talks about. But one of the things that like has stood out to me over and over again in the things that he teaches is like hopefully, hopefully this is guy. I think it's the guy it's you know, it's like in certain areas.

Spend like, Oh, yes. Put money towards the things that you want to put money towards. And another is be brutally like stringent and cut back. And, but you don't have to do that everywhere. You know, it's like make those decisions and invest in what you love to do and don't invest in what you don't love to do.

James: Yeah, no, he talks about this in previous books on this one. He is now, he's. He's, he's labeled it. He now calls it money dials. It's a, it's a new ish term. When he originally wrote his book, he didn't call it that. But that's that idea. Yeah, things that you love, spend extravagantly on it. Or, you know, for your budget, whatever that means.

Right? You know, obviously don't go in debt to do it. Right. But then he goes, but then, yeah, for, for things that you don't love, cut them mercilessly. Just be ruthless about it. And then you can take the funds that you were spending there and transition it into things that you love. Mm. And. Yeah, and I think that's, that's good, like for us.

Cars,

Jessi: not that big of a deal. Right. You know, and so we kind of,

James: we don't spend very much on vehicles at all.

Jessi: Yeah, we buy used, super used.

James: Yeah, like our van. We spent 4, 500 on it. Yeah,

Jessi: but they're great and

James: they get us around. Paint chipping and all sorts of stuff. Oh, yeah, but I mean. Makes it easy to find a parking lot, which is nice.

Yeah, but travel, like. Travel's a thing. We love to travel. Tech stuff, like my phone. Sure. I buy a nice phone. And I'm okay with that. And so yeah, that's yes. Clothing is another

Jessi: one that we don't spend a lot on. You know, cause it's like, I like to thrift. Yes. We wear things for many, many years. And it's like, I'm okay with that.

I think. Don't have to be named brand. No, the

James: shirt's after college, but it's pretty close. This was a gift.

Jessi: Hand me down. Thrifted.

James: There you go, boom. Okay,

Jessi: my socks weren't new, but like, I don't know, 10 years ago,

James: so I like it. So one of the things that he talks about in his book are the four money types. And these are like personality types of people.

I just thought it'd be interesting for, for people to, to hear about it so they can figure out like who is

Jessi: you like, it's like a personality quiz or whatever. We're like, Ooh, which one am I, which

James: one am I? Yeah. It'll be interesting to see which one you think that I am. I, I have my own guess. And I thought he, he starts it off with this.

He goes, you know, people like to say like, Oh, personal finance is personal. He's like, Nope. I prefer a different saying most of us are mostly the same. And so he goes, that is most of us want to be able to spend on the things we love and know that we have enough. Most of us want money to be less of a source of stress in our relationships.

Jessi: Yeah,

James: I was going through and so he's talking about the psychology of money in this particular chapter and again He goes in like hey, there's these four money types of people.

Jessi: Okay,

James: which one are you and and then he kind of has advice for For if you are that person mm-hmm . How to overcome it. And then if you're that spouse, here's how to deal with that slash encourage.

Jessi: Okay. That

James: kind of person

Jessi: does. Okay. As a preface, does he think that certain of these money types are negative and certain are positive? Oh yeah.

James: Well there's, there's negatives and pots blah. Negative, yes and yes.

Jessi: For, for each one, there's like pluses and minuses. Yeah. It's not a,

James: Oh, you want to be this one.

Sure. It's just more of like, here's where you naturally, and, and I think for all of them, right, you can have, they're good and bad. It's all a question of degrees and, and you know, you can have good tendencies, bad tendencies. Chilling into

Jessi: okay,

James: the first one the name implies something it's called the avoider

The avoider uses a variety of conscious and unconscious strategies to deflect and procrastinate when it comes to money Sometimes they know exactly what they're doing. Oftentimes they're genuinely oblivious to the motivation behind their tactics. Deep down, they're afraid of confronting the reality of their situation.

That fear may come from ignorance. I should already know about money from a sense that it's too late. I'm 50 and I haven't even started saving from embarrassment. I don't want to look stupid in front of my partner, kids, friends, or from a general sense that if they find out the truth, they just might be as bad as they imagine.

And so common behaviors. Dodging conversations, not opening mail, which I'll admit I've gone through those. So I'm like, I don't want to open the mail. Refusing to look at online accounts or automatic payments, ignoring parking tickets, playing innocent, reframing avoidance as a virtue money just isn't that important to me and.

Overspending

Jessi: interesting so things they

James: might say is like you're just so much better at money. I'm not good at math Things like that fine. We can talk about our bills. But first did you spend or but first? Why did you spend so much last weekend? I thought I told you and then not this again. Let's talk about it next week I'm tired of work.

So yeah, I don't think either of us are avoiders. I think so

Jessi: Well, like you said there's there's phases that we kind of go. Yeah, it's like a This particular financial thing is annoying or frustrating or

James: yeah. And you might procrastinate on doing whatever it is, which is a form of avoidance, but yeah. And I could see where that's a, you can have a thing where you got one person who was like, Hey, real estate's awesome.

I want to invest in it. I want to keep going. I want to grow our portfolio and potentially married to a spouse who's like, I just, I don't even want to deal with this. It's your thing. I don't want to deal with it. So, he has advice. The best way to reach an avoid avoider is to show them what their beliefs are costing them, including how their avoidance is hurting their family and what they're missing out on.

Because they are missing out on like, that's an important part of life is the investing, just the finances in general. And

Jessi: So what are some of the benefits, like for an avoider, I mean, they're avoiding things because they don't see the benefits of like keeping on top on top of tracking or like knowing what investments

James: are out there.

I think they're like, they're on the right track in the sense that like money isn't the be all end all of your life. You shouldn't just be totally engrossed by it.

Jessi: Okay. So

James: in that sense, they're right, but it's been taken to an extreme. Is that. I think like, because you were kind of looking for like, what's the positive side of that?

Yeah.

Jessi: Well, no, like what's the positive? What do you tell them?

James: Oh.

Jessi: To get them interested in finances if they're just like, nah, not worth my time, you're better at it. Alright,

James: here we go. His advice is you should ask them, what do you get out of being an avoider? And maybe you'd use a different word for it.

He goes, the most common response is, I get to ignore my money so I don't feel bad. And then you go, okay, well what if you keep denying? What if you could become good with money? What would you tell your kids to avoid? Would you tell your kids to avoid something important because it makes them feel bad?

Yeah.

Jessi: Now that's, that's a good one to me.

James: And then the other one is try to get them play out in the future. Hey, in 10 years, if you continue in voiding, where will we be?

Jessi: Yeah.

James: That kind of thing. Other stuff too, is he'll be like, help them focus on the positive sides of it, right? It's not just paying bills and having low on money, but like help create a shared vision for where you want to go in the future.

Why are you doing this investing? Why are we spending this way? And if you can get them excited about that part. Once you have that strong vision, that strong why, then you can go like, okay, now let's put in some of the work to, to pay the bills, to figure out the tracking so that that vision can come true.

Yeah. It's like, and it's baby steps, man. Like you're not going to see a change in like a week or probably even six months. It's like, yeah, you know, you just kind of,

Jessi: I would imagine some avoiders become avoiders because. They have bad experiences with money. Mm. Or they, yeah. They don't manage it well and so then they're like, I see that I didn't do that.

Right. I just, I'm giving up. Yeah. I don't wanna do it. I can see

James: that.

Jessi: You know?

James: Yeah. Or a lot of it, like he was talking about in his book, like childhood expectations mm-hmm . Or experiences kind of play into it. Yeah. As what's model

Jessi: to

James: Yeah.

Jessi: It is often what you do.

James: He also recommended to to give them some small responsibility.

Just kinda feel that out and don't. Don't do it all at once. Well, don't do it all at once, but also don't take it back. If they don't do it, you're like, yeah man, I guess that's your responsibility. You know, walk them through it, teach them how to do it, don't just let them hang them out to dry. Which,

Jessi: understandably, like, you're presenting this as like couples talking to each other, like, understandably, that's difficult.

Oh, 100%. For your spouse to be that person.

James: Yes, the way I'm saying it isn't how you present it. Right, I'm like, here's kind of where you want to get them to go. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Number two, number two. Well, yeah, I

Jessi: was just thinking it could be beneficial to have like a third party. Hope you have some of those conversations because sometimes with your spouse, you're just, you're both too close to it and too invested, unintended in, in your finances and, and there's emotion there and other layers.

So it's like sometimes maybe nice to have just someone else having those conversations or encouragement. Nice. takes different steps.

James: Alright, the optimizer. Optimizers are maniacally Maniacally? Yeah, that's the right word. Optimizers are maniacally focused on their numbers. They love rules and beating the system.

They track everything and are usually quite skilled when it comes to day to day money management. But they live almost entirely for the future. They don't know how to use money to live a rich life now. And rich life, that's kind of his, that's his branding. You know, spending like you were talking about earlier.

On what you want. He says he has a soft spot for them. He goes, left alone, I would have a 32 part spreadsheet tracking my spending, favorite hotels, restaurants, daily blood pressure, favorite coffee beans, amount of sunlight every day, number of compliments I give my wife, hobbies, number of friends. Yeah, I, I may or may not.

Be someone who tracks everything from like calories to macros to weight, to, to steps, to steps, to, it's, it's even more insane.

Jessi: All that. I mean, calendaring falls into that tracking my kind of stuff too. My

James: sleeping. So temperature, blood pressure, all that. Yeah, I got it all. He talks about common behaviors, maintaining 13 spreadsheets, reading 34 different fire forums running yet another Monte Carlo analysis, which I talk about all the time, engaging in online debates about the pitfalls of the 4 percent rule and spending more time opening credit cards for free points than actually traveling.

It's not funny, but it is a

Jessi: little

James: funny. I, I like to think you're traveling, traveling, but I definitely am down that like,

Jessi: why that intense? Although yes, you have many of those sentences, favorite

James: phrases. What if I don't account for all the variables? Have you read this new strategy for a backdoor Roth? I gave a presentation last year about that.

Or how about this one? I paid for my flight to New York city with points. Yeah. It only involves signing up for 26 new credit cards and tracking every bonus award for 18 months. It's not funny. It's not funny

Jessi: because. You just, well, I think you actually almost said that, not quite that exact, not the last part, but the other part like, Oh, I was

James: pumped.

Oh, we can

Jessi: totally pay for this with our points.

James: Oh, I was pumped that we, we flew to California totally for, you know, for frizzle. One card. That was it. It was good. It wasn't 20, not a strategy behind it, but I got an optimizing thing. Oh yeah. Here's my critique of optimizers though. Optimizers are boring.

Asked what their hobbies are and they'll say, well, I'd like to check my spreadsheet.

And then you've had

Jessi: that conversation.

James: You and I regularly talk about where I'm like, I don't know if I have any hobbies. And I ultimately was like, you know what? I'm a bookworm. I like to read. I read about

Jessi: finance. You read about finance and tracking and optimizing.

James: You know, I don't know. Ah, yeah. I mean so his advice to me, Oh, here it goes.

What it's like being married to an optimizer because optimizers focus relentlessly on numbers. They often become unbearably cheap. Yeah, which I Because they just

Jessi: pay attention to it the whole time. Huh,

James: Huh. And that is something that I actively have to fight against. Really? Oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, I I often, I mask it by joking, where I go, oh, you know, I just don't value my time, so I do the work.

But at the end of the day, it's me being cheap. Admitting it without saying like I'm cheap

Jessi: because you're like, I'm going to do this because I'm not going to hire somebody. Correct. Yeah. I don't want to pay that.

James: Yeah.

Jessi: Okay. Yeah. I can see that.

James: They cleverly frame this as a virtue. I'm not like those superficial people.

I don't say that. I don't need a glass of fancy wine. I'm perfectly happy with water, which. I am perfectly happy with water. I genuinely think it tastes good though. You and I haven't get into bubbly water and I'm like, Oh yeah, I do. We'll do bubbly water, but we got a, a soda stream, but yeah, I, yeah, I'm an optimizer.

Turns out that is a hundred percent me. So let's see here. His advice. Just as you can develop a taste for new foods, you can develop a taste for spending money meaningfully. And you do that by hanging out with people who are a little more spontaneous, because money behavior is contagious. He goes, yeah, you just become a miser, essentially a scrooge.

Jessi: Well, I think We balance each other out a little bit, but also you, you have become more charactered in that area too.

James: Yeah.

Jessi: More, more so like we were talking about where you, there are certain things you're like, Oh yeah, I'm totally willing to spend on this. Right. I have no qualms. Yeah. Yes. And then other areas that you're talking about those

James: money dials earlier.

There are, there are things that I am willing to spend lavishly on. It's a very small list, but when I do, we go all in like vacationing is one, we don't do it very often, but Like, we don't, we don't go, I mean, we do a little bit of camping, but no, we go to Spain. We go to Europe, like we go, we go all in and, and that's okay.

All right, here's your advice for you to me he goes, your partner, that's me, is always going to love the numbers. That's a skill that should be appreciated and praised. Because mastering the numbers is a key part of a rich life. So you're

Jessi: welcome. On

James: their skills, they'll love it.

Jessi: You're a master spreadsheet maker.

So my

James: guess is if you're listening to this podcast, you're in a optimizer situation. Just got to, got to be okay with that. And you gotta develop, you gotta develop the ability to gently redirect them to other areas of a rich life. Like help them articulate how much is enough, ask them why, stuff like that, which I get people who ask me that all the time.

Yeah, we've, we've had

Jessi: those conversations too.

James: Yeah, so it's good. That's the optimizer. The worrier. Oh no, you're getting nervous, you're getting nervous. Oh, I'm

Jessi: very nervous. For the

James: worrier, money conversations are almost always negative. They worry about running out of money. They worry about how much they spend over the weekend.

After a while, they worry about why they worry so much.

Jessi: I have been there before.

James: Yeah, I feel like you're not quite that bad. Common behaviors? Lying awake at night, playing at worst case scenarios. Oh goodness, no. Catastrophizing,

Jessi: Catastrophizing, Catastroph I can't read. Wow. Catastroph That's a weird word.

Catastrophizing. Catastrophizing.

James: Catastrophizing.

Jessi: Catastrophe. Catastrophizing. Anyways, worst case scenario ing.

James: Yeah, over small expenses, digging up old issues, logging into accounts daily. They don't automate their bills, so they have to sign in to pay each one. Interesting. My favorite phrase is just a what if.

What if we both lose our jobs, or the market never bounces back, or our home loses value, or the sky falls. I have, yeah, some of those. You're not quite that extreme. I'm not quite that

Jessi: extreme.

James: I am just as extreme as he described for the optimizers. Oh, yes. But but yeah I think if the other two of us, you're more of a worrier, you'd label yourself a realist, but you maybe not necessarily about money, but I do

Jessi: ask a lot of questions.

James: Yeah. Not necessarily what

Jessi: if questions, but more like, Hmm, how is this going to play out? Or what would it look like if we change this or do this? Or are there any other options for X, Y, Z? So, I do, I think through things, I don't know if I would call it worry.

James: Yeah, I agree. No, I agree. I think you're intentional and meaningful about it.

Yeah. What it's like to be married to a worrier, often, it's a bummer.

Jessi: Womp womp.

James: Every time the money conversation comes up, they just center it on their fears. And Yeah, I could

Jessi: see that being not

James: fun. Which again, he's like, you know, if you go down the like, there are seeds that are good about that, right?

It's the Right. Yeah, you should worry. You should. You should think about things, question things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You shouldn't get stuck in it, but it's good to bring up those things in worst case scenario and be conservative. Yeah. I think that's good.

Jessi: I think a good, I don't know if he says this, but a good measurement is like, are you still making forward progress on things or are you just sitting in it?

You know, and like festering and like, it's just so hard and I don't know what to do.

James: Yeah. You know? I think Jim Collins in his book, he calls it productive paranoia

Jessi: and,

James: and it's, it's that combination of the two that you were just talking about, right? Yes. Be paranoid, worry about it, but in a productive way to do something about it in

Jessi: order

James: to move forward.

Yeah. I think that's good. He has advice for them goes, Hey, what do you get out of worrying? Ask yourself, that doesn't make you feel in control. Let's give you comfort. He also recommends to just play out the worst case scenario. Just go for it. Like don't just, instead of mulling on it, write it out, do it.

Let's see what that looks like. And then you can then adjust the productive part and say, yeah, let's create a plan about it. You it affects your partner and yeah. Some other stuff.

Jessi: What was the first one again?

James: IT

Jessi: optimizer, worrier.

James: Worrier, and the avoider.

Jessi: Oh, avoider. Yeah.

James: Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right.

The final one, the dreamer. Oh,

Jessi: okay. Out of those four, I think I'm the Warrior

James: Dreamers use magical thinking when it comes to money. Something is always coming soon that will pan out and change their financial situation. You'll often see dreamers falling for get rich quick schemes, time shares, crypto, multi level marketing, and dubious passive income businesses.

Oh my

Jessi: goodness.

James: Dreamers can be optimistic and motivating. If you just stick with me, this one's going to hit. And we're going to be able to pay off all that debt. But by avoiding reality, they're facing, they're forcing someone else to carry their weight. They consistently reiterate that it will all work out.

And they disdain people who follow traditional paths like a nine to five job. They might use quit laughing at me. They might use pejorative phrases to describe other people, even those who are more financially stable by saying they're trading time for money.

Jessi: Oh my goodness, you're an optimizer dreamer.

James: Yep, I totally am. Common behaviors? Carrying a balance on credit cards, borrowing from family and friends, secret spending, which I don't do. Interesting. Investing in get rich quick streams. How about this one? Reading Robert Kiyosaki and Grant Cardone. Yep. Ha ha ha ha.

Jessi: I mean,

James: favorite phrases? It's going to be fine.

It always is. The universe will provide. I just know, I, what is it? I just know I can't work a nine to five. And I just need insert a highly complicated set of actions, each contingent on another that must all happen sequentially, which the person has never successfully completed. And then we'll be good.

Then why don't you trust me? I'm not, I'm not a full on dreamer.

Jessi: Okay. This wasn't like finance related, but you left me a voicemail earlier that pretty much said, everything's going to be fine. I just need to track and optimize everything. And then everything will be fine. Yep. I mean, that's what it boiled down to.

So

James: I felt encouraged. Yeah.

Jessi: I mean,

James: yeah. So I'm a,

Jessi: I feel like that's a

James: good combo to be honest. You know, it's like, man, I'm tracking everything. I'm seeing it, but I'm also optimistic about the future. I could probably use some more worrying and less, a little more avoiding just, you know, balancing out my, it's

Jessi: okay.

Because I don't think I have. Many pieces at all of the optimizer dreamer. I mean, I can

James: track you're probably, you're not a voider. I don't, you're just disinterested. Not, I mean, it's hard. It's hard. You're probably totally normal. And your problem is that you're next to me. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And, and so like, you know, what was it?

They, they tell, they tell guys like, don't smile at your girl when you have shaving cream on your face. Cause it makes your teeth look yellow. Even though in a normal situation, I look white, I think that's, I'm shaving cream. Oh, super white. And so and, and you're, which makes you a comparison, you go, Oh, you're nothing, you're like, you're none of these, like, like.

I think you're probably more balanced in general. If anything, you're more the avoider type. You just don't worry about it. Now you haven't really had a reason like you're not

Jessi: well. And I,

James: if there are

Jessi: hard things, that's definitely my tendency is to be like, no, don't want to deal with it. Yeah. You'll appreciate this.

Don't take care of that. Exactly. He

James: goes, my advice for dreamers. I have no advice because you're not reading this book.

Jessi: Yeah. You're reading Kiyosaki and Cardo.

Well, that's good. You're an optimizer dreamer. And so you are reading this book.

James: Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, so those were the, the four money types that he was talking about. So interesting. And yeah, it's not your normal ones, like the saver spenders, but yeah, just more like it's the psychology. How do you think about money?

So I just thought that was interesting and, and yeah, and so if you're. Like if you are married to a dreamer, and my guess is if you're listening to this podcast, you're also probably in that dreamer category as well. It happens and, and it's all good, right? It's just recognizing that they can be difficult for that other person to deal with if you're like constantly optimistic, always looking for the future.

And, and maybe the answer is to simplify some, maybe. I don't know. Or

Jessi: just find ways to communicate.

James: Yeah.

Jessi: You know, and when your partner starts

James: asking you questions, don't get annoyed. It's good. You know, they're engaging, right? Take that as a win I think is how I would, I would look at it. But yeah, anyways I thought that was good overall.

It's a good book, especially if, if you're married and. You know, and you don't, I, a lot of the stuff he read, I was like, all right, well, like, obviously we talk about this stuff all the time. And so I felt like we were, we're in a pretty good spot overall for it. It

Jessi: reminds me of What's the guy's name?

Dave

James: Ramsey.

Jessi: Yeah. Dave Ramsey. Go

James: ahead.

Jessi: Dave Ramsey, I, I think had like a marriage Money thing,

James: money and yeah, something,

Jessi: something like that. And I, I remember like one of the things that he said in there was like, there are different ways that people view money, see money, talk about money, engage with it.

So he's like, look at that, identify how you do that as a couple and then play into your strengths, which reminds me very much of this. You know, it's like, it's okay if you're a dreamer and you're out there and you're just pushing the limits, like play into that. And like include your spouse and allow them if they're that optimizer person or the worrier to say, okay, like how can we balance each other out and how can you do the pieces of our finances that make sense to you and how can I do pieces that make sense to me?

So, so like a very practical example is like you love spreadsheets. You love tracking. So you do all of that and you put it all together and you make it look nice. And then I like to ask questions, so you present it to me and I ask a ton of questions, you know, and so we play this back and forth of like, Oh, okay.

Yeah, I can't figure that out. I can't track that differently. And I'm like, okay, well, why did you do this? And why did you do that? And why is this way up high this month and super low this month? You know, and you're like, okay, yeah, let's dive in. So it plays into our strengths and

James: that's fair. There you go.

Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully that's helpful. Hopefully it kind of gives you some ideas of how you may look at money or how your spouse looks at money and some ways that you can talk to them and start that conversation to help them out. Because if you invest with us, which if you are interested in that, you can check us out at furlo.com to learn more about investing with us. It's good to have both of you on the same page and kind of running in that same direction together. You may be the one. Listening to this, you might be like, yeah, I'm doing the stuff and I'm engaging, but I think it's important for both of you to be on the same page, at least for that bigger vision for where you're headed financially as a couple.

So there you go. Awesome. Super fun. Thanks for listening. Have a great day.